※ 本文轉寄自 ptt.cc, 文章原始頁面
看板EAseries
標題

[閒聊] GOT S08 哲學家齊澤克的評論

時間
最新2019-05-24 01:31:00
留言84則留言,21人參與討論
推噓30 ( 31152 )
https://ind.pn/2M3qYIj Game of Thrones tapped into fears of revolution and political women – and lef t us no better off than before So justice prevailed – but what kind of justice? The last season of the Game of Thrones has prompted public outcry and culminat ed in a petition (signed by almost 1 million outraged viewers) to disqualify t he entire season and re-shoot a new one. The ferocity of the debate is in itse lf a proof that the ideological stakes must be high. The dissatisfaction turned on a couple of points: bad scenario (under the pres sure to quickly end the series, the complexity of the narrative was simplified ), bad psychology (Daenerys’ turn to “Mad Queen” was not justified by her c haracter development), etc. One of the few intelligent voices in the debate was that of the author Stephen King who noted that dissatisfaction was not generated by the bad ending but t he fact of the ending itself. In our epoch of series which in principle could go on indefinitely, the idea of narrative closure becomes intolerable. It is true that, in the series’ swift denouement, a strange logic takes over, a logic that does not violate credible psychology but rather the narrative pr esuppositions of a TV series. In the last season, it is simply the preparation for a battle, mourning and destruction after the battle, and of the battler i tself in all its meaninglessness – much more realistic for me than the usual gothic melodramatic plots. Season eight stages three consecutive struggles. The first one is between huma nity and its inhuman “Others” (the Night Army from the North led by the Nigh t King); between the two main groups of humans (the evil Lannisters and the co alition against them led by Daenerys and Starks); and the inner conflict betwe en Daenerys and the Starks. This is why the battles in season eight follow a logical path from an external opposition to the inner split: the defeat of the inhuman Night Army, the defe at of Lannisters and the destruction of King’s Landing; the last struggle bet ween the Starks and Daenerys – ultimately between traditional “good” nobili ty (Starks) faithfully protecting their subjects from bad tyrants, and Daenery s as a new type of a strong leader, a kind of progressive bonapartist acting o n behalf of the underprivileged. The stakes in the final conflict are thus: should the revolt against tyranny b e just a fight for the return of the old kinder version of the same hierarchic al order, or should it develop into the search for a new order that is needed? The finale combines the rejection of a radical change with an old anti-feminis t motif at work in Wagner. For Wagner, there is nothing more disgusting than a woman who intervenes in political life, driven by the desire for power. In co ntrast to male ambition, a woman wants power in order to promote her own narro w family interests or, even worse, her personal caprice, incapable as she is o f perceiving the universal dimension of state politics. The same femininity which, within the close circle of family life, is the powe r of protective love, turns into obscene frenzy when displayed at the level of public and state affairs. Recall the lowest point in the dialogue of Game of Thrones when Daenerys tells Jon that if he cannot love her as a queen then fea r should reign – the embarrassing, vulgar motif of a sexually unsatisfied wom an who explodes into destructive fury. But – let’s bite our sour apple now – what about Daenerys’ murderous outbu rsts? Can the ruthless killing of the thousands of ordinary people in King’s Landing really be justified as a necessary step to universal freedom? At this point, we should remember that the scenario was written by two men. Daenerys as the Mad Queen is strictly a male fantasy, so the critics were righ t when they pointed out that her descent into madness was psychologically not justified. The view of Daenerys with mad-furious expression flying on a dragon and burning houses and people expresses patriarchal ideology with its fear of a strong political woman. The final destiny of the leading women in Game of Thrones fits these coordinat es. Even if the good Daenerys wins and destroys the bad Cersei, power corrupts her. Arya (who saved them all by single-handedly killing the Night King) also disappears, sailing to the West of the West (as if to colonise America). The one who remains (as the queen of the autonomous kingdom of the North) is S ansa, a type of women beloved by today’s capitalism: she combines feminine so ftness and understanding with a good dose of intrigue, and thus fully fits the new power relations. This marginalisation of women is a key moment of the gen eral liberal-conservative lesson of the finale: revolutions have to go wrong, they bring new tyranny, or, as Jon put it to Daenerys: “The people who follow you know that you made something impossible happen. Ma ybe that helps them believe that you can make other impossible things happen: build a world that’s different from the shit one they’ve always known. But i f you use dragons to melt castles and burn cities, you’re no different.” Consequently, Jon kills out of love (saving the cursed woman from herself, as the old male-chauvinist formula says) the only social agent in the series who really fought for something new, for a new world that would put an end to old injustices. So justice prevailed – but what kind of justice? The new king is Bran: crippl ed, all-knowing, who wants nothing – with the evocation of the insipid wisdom that the best rulers are those who do not want power. A dismissive laughter t hat ensues when one of the new elite proposes a more democratic selection of t he king tells it all. And one cannot help but note that those faithful to Daenerys to the end are mo re diverse – her military commander is black – while the new rulers are clea rly white Nordic. The radical queen who wanted more freedom for everyone irres pective of their social standing and race is eliminated, things are brought ba ck to normal. 齊澤克的批評集中於兩點: 自由保守主義——這群人總是認為想要用革命推翻暴君必然只會產生暴君,但顯然GOT推翻 丹妮莉絲之後選出了一個,全知、無權力慾的跛子,還是個白人,而這正符合現代人所要 的,而當丹妮莉絲的軍隊裡顯然更多元自由,好比有黑人指揮官時,這狀況一旦被推翻, 所有事情又回到了原來的狀態。但難道革命只有這條路嗎?革命不是為了尋找一個時代的 新秩序嗎? 厭女的——我們不能忽略寫這個劇本的是兩個男性,而顯然他們透露出一種對於顯露政治 慾望女人的厭惡,丹妮莉絲的觀點充滿了瘋狂歇斯底里,駕馭龍和焚燒房屋和人民,表達 了父權意識形態,害怕強大的政治女性。丹妮莉絲在掌權之後,毫無劇情內的發展理由( 說書裡面有的這顯然不是什麼好藉口)就發狂,甚至最後由囧來拯救瘋掉的女王——就好 像那些老式沙文主義的寓言裡面的結局,一刀了結夜王的艾利亞也不可以到政治中心,她 必須要離開,所以她選擇遠行,不然就會危害到男性在政治中的地位。 結語:D&D出來受死吧。 -- [當仁不讓]
Hanbor: 事實上就是他成功了 不過很多案例太牽強06/20 03:22
Hanbor: 插圖本來就是翻畫 連把圖面精緻化都不行有點誇張06/20 03:23
Hanbor: 講的好像是隔壁賣魯肉飯肉燥飯 人家就不能賣一樣06/20 03:23
Hanbor: 是有點投機取巧 不過插畫家還是設計這行業 只能這樣生存06/20 03:24
-- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 118.163.153.95 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/EAseries/M.1558517383.A.67B.html

84 則留言

luvfilm, 1F
齊澤克用哲學評論電影/小說/影集真的一絕 我沒跟GOT但看

shyuwu, 2F
老實說,如果灰蟲子能在丹妮死後控制住那群調性和無垢者

shyuwu, 3F
完全相反的多斯拉克,那他的能力其實是相當強的

mysmalllamb, 4F
說得好!其實我覺得這樣的劇情發展再現我們這醜陋的

mysmalllamb, 5F
現世,並無不可;只是劇情呈現上對這樣的發展帶有什

mysmalllamb, 6F
麼立場、又用什麼視角去觀看它並引起觀眾的觀感,那

mysmalllamb, 7F
可以有截然不同的選擇。

luvfilm, 8F
這篇依然會心一笑 他看得很真 真到像在酸人 XD

Acinonyx, 9F
牽扯到仇女…很無言 dnd罪狀很多 但不包括這個

Acinonyx, 10F
現在是牆倒眾人推 給他們安什麼罪名沒人會抗議

Acinonyx, 11F
反例:三傻 老玫瑰
三傻有被提到喔! 留下(作為北方自治王國的女王)的人是Sansa,一種受當今資本主義喜愛的女性:她 將女性的柔軟和理解與良好的權謀相結合,從而完全適合新的權力關係。女性的邊緣 化是關鍵的,也就是一般自由保守主義的結局教訓:革命必須出錯,它們會帶來新的暴 政。(齊澤克的意思大概是說,他們透過厭女的戲碼來表達出一種保守思想。)

lyt40, 12F
贊成仇女+1!安排珊莎的強暴戲,說那是女性成長的過程(吐

lyt40, 13F
血)
※ 編輯: Victor70412 (118.163.153.95), 05/22/2019 17:57:43

jerry8432, 14F
推 齊澤克 看他電爆龍蝦博士真的很爽

celya6223, 15F
推推

claudia0212, 16F

Grrr, 17F
他的觀察很正確

smonke, 18F
這真是完全打到痛點啊 哈哈

ck326, 19F
老實說評論阿雅那段我懷疑這個人到底有沒有看過GOT???

ck326, 20F
工三小,阿雅本來就是遊俠風格,探險才符合她的人設

ck326, 21F
如果跑去搞政治才莫名其妙

ck326, 22F
現在很多所謂的評論,我很懷疑到底有沒有看過每一集 GOT

ck326, 23F
還是只看過最後一集就跟風亂寫評論
這個你就說對了,老齊甚至本人承認自己常沒看過電影就寫評論,或是看個一兩集就寫 了,他的看法都是從隻字片語的解析創作的心理狀態還有意識形態,就當作參考看看囉
※ 編輯: Victor70412 (118.163.153.95), 05/22/2019 19:09:06

fire60743, 24F
靠竟然是齊澤克

deutyi, 25F
艾莉亞的看法實在很不認同,她早就顛覆傳統女角很多很多了

deutyi, 26F
,為什麼一定要把每個角色(尤其是女角)都塞進權力中心

deutyi, 27F
才不叫歧視或平權?

orzisme, 28F
他完全沒講錯。D&D真的是厭女。看看他們怎麼去扁平冰火

orzisme, 29F
裡豐富多面的女性角色?甚至還說的出那種噁心的強暴成長

orzisme, 30F
論。

orzisme, 31F
至於政治方面。我覺得他們只是想討好美國主流。簡單粗暴

orzisme, 32F
的呈現。尤其體現在龍媽線。龍媽線其實應該有許多關於政

orzisme, 33F
治的討論。但他們以前只想演開掛。演龍。所有衝突都很簡

orzisme, 34F
化。再不行就直接用武力碾壓。錯失了非常多描寫她矛盾與

orzisme, 35F
統治問題的時候。最後收不了。就亂收了

mysmalllamb, 36F
搓湯圓的保守主義政治也不止美國主流,全球好多地方

mysmalllamb, 37F
都正流行著~

valeria, 38F
我只希望D&D從今以後都不要碰任何一個女性角色,每當看到

valeria, 39F
他們經過他們手中糟蹋的女性角色就眼神死

modert5728, 77F
編劇確實一再地用男性凝視去塑造劇情中的女角

modert5728, 78F
不要每次聽到女權兩字就嚇到倒彈好嗎?到底是多害怕自

modert5728, 79F
己失去在父權社會所獲得的地位
※ 編輯: Victor70412 (140.112.30.226), 05/23/2019 11:56:19

Victory2, 80F
哇,是那個齊澤克耶!

pattda, 81F
想說這角度來看這部戲的不足可能要晚點再論 沒想到

pattda, 82F
還是有人先發難XD

pattda, 83F
好萊塢不是仇女 是男性至上 經由娛樂將這觀念傳遞出去

pattda, 84F
做幕後也只是跟隨以前做的片來看來學 DD主寫後就開始一堆

pattda, 85F
舊好萊塢式的故事

Victor70412 作者的近期文章

[閒聊] 咒術打那麼長+臨陣悟招很容易爆炸吧?
其實不是想討論236 主要是236之前我已經看戲看得有點膩了 後來整理一下自己的想法,覺得主要是來自這兩個因素 1. 戰鬥戲過長 這邊也有一個想問大家有沒有推薦打戲打的很長但還是很好看的漫畫 僅限於雙方維持在同一人 如果是換人打或是多個勢力
更多 Victor70412 作者的文章...