Re: [外絮] 最新民調,美國人票選MJ為所有運動的GOAT

※ 引述《coke5130 ( )》之銘言： : ※ 引述《huntai (婚帶)》之銘言： : : 原文網址 : https://m5.gs/WHR2Um : : 此為New Morning Consult於 Feb. 4-5, 2023 對 2,203 美國成年人做的民調 (恕刪) 看到了某篇貼文寫，MJ(魔術強森)評論道： https://tinyurl.com/2kmtv2qw Club shay shay they asked Magic Johnson. If jordan is better then lebron why did lebron have more points? “Previously we players in our ERA didn’t chase individual stats, in sports not just basketball, I mean all sports, the most essential thing is winning, that’s what really makes a player or a team great.” ""It's a great achievement, to be on top not only in points, also in assists, rebounds in any statistic is important, but the greatest satisfaction a player can have is to lift a champion trophy, give that joy to his team and his city." " "He believed if Jordan, interested in pursuing Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's record, had everything in his favor, seasons he retired to play baseball, he would have easily scored 5,000 or 6,000 points, he was at his prime." Club shay shay頻道主問了魔術，若MJ真的比較強，為何LBJ拿比較多分數呢？ 魔術答：我們那個年代不追求個人成績，不光是籃球，是所有的運動皆然， 運動最本質的就是求勝，奪冠這件事使得個人/球隊變得偉大， 得最多分、最多助攻、最多籃板是項偉大的成就，但要站上巔峰更重要的是， 享受奪冠所帶來個人、球隊甚至城市的滿足， 他相信MJ若要追求J霸的紀錄一點也不難，就他93年退休的狀態正值巔峰期， 再拿個5000或6000分，將是垂手可得。 不過這篇貼文我找不到對應的來源，找到了該頻道主與MJ(魔術)的訪談， https://youtu.be/Wjt6ZJVYQMo，並沒有以上這一段， (我是跳著看，用字幕去撈，並沒有)， 不過我認同貼文所說的，球隊勝利高於個人成績。 同時此貼文底下有一則留言，寫了落落長一大段MJ跟LBJ的比較， 列出原文，並加翻譯及補充提供大家參考： Now lets begin! A. Did you know LBJ played in Cleveland for 8 years from 2003 to 2010 and Never win a championship? Until he joined Miami Heat in 2010 but only win his 1st Championship in 2012 together with 2 all star teammates 1.Wade and 2.Bosh? They called it the BIG THREE. Then Rey Allen joined the team the following year together with Anderson the birdman. 騎士8年未能奪冠，改投熱火與全明星Wade, Bosh組成Big 3， 2011 2-4敗於小牛 2012 4-1擊敗雷霆(第一冠) 2013 4-3擊敗馬刺(第二冠)，本季雷槍、鳥人加入 2014 2-4敗於馬刺，轉隊 B. Did you know LBJ move back to to Cavs in 2014 but did not win a championship? He has 3 all star team mates, 1.Kyrie, 2.Love, and 3.Williams, then they win 2016 championship. 之後返回騎士，隊中有全明星Irving, Love, 2015 2-4敗於勇士 2016 4-3擊敗勇士(第三冠) 2017 1-4敗於勇士 2018 0-4敗於勇士，轉隊 C. Did you know after returning to cleaveland from 2014 to 2018, he won 1 championship only for 4 years for cavs then leave Cavs again to move to Lakers 返回騎士四年僅奪下一冠後，又再轉隊 D. Did you know LBJ move to Lakers in 2018 to build a Super Team together with 3 All Star, 1.Davis, 2.Howard, 3.Rondo plus 2 supporting cast with championship experience in Golden State 1.Cook and 2.Mcgee and then, they win 2020 championship. Then after, they added 2 additional all star player, 1.Carmelo and 2.Westbrook 2019 轉到湖人，季賽西區第10 2020 4-2擊敗熱火(第四冠)(俗稱泡泡冠)，本季AD、DW加入 2021 西區第一輪敗於太陽 2022 季賽西區第11 E. Did you know the quote "if you can't beat them, join them" this is what other fans tells to their star player once they leave and joined to a championship contender team. Question, who comes to your mind? 打不贏就加入，這句話讓你想起誰？(我猜是KD吧) F. Did you know kareem Abdul-Jabbar holds the no. 1 in total career points for 33 years, with 6 Championship, 6MVPs and 2FMVPs and 2x Scoring Title in 21 seasons? And yet some fans did not consider him as the GOAT? But since his record will be broken due to changes in rules most especially to a foul and 3pts is a big part of the game. SOME fans thinked, if LBJ broke the record of KAJ he will become a GOAT? How ironic to tell LBJ is the GOAT if he is behind 2 more championship and MVPs to Kareem and 1 scoring title. Please respect Kareems Legacy. J霸的得分王紀錄高懸33年， 21年生涯握有6冠、6次MVP、2次FMVP，2次得分王，仍不被認為是GOAT？ LBJ在即將超越紀錄時 生涯20年握有4冠、4次MVP，4次FMVP，1次得分王， 特別是聯盟改變犯規標準及三分球當道之下， 會認為當他能超越總得分就是GOAT？請尊重J霸的傳奇生涯 G. Now since GOAT is being discussed by SOME LBJ fans, lets compare his achievements to other legends. Don't get me wrong, LBJ is a good player and I agree that he is the greatest of this ERA, but not the greatest of ALL time. Now please see data below and let the NBA Organization, NBA Players, NBA Legends and True NBA Fans to decide. 作者同意LBJ是當代最偉大的球星，但要稱作GOAT，Greatest of All Time， 言之過早。列出數據讓各方公評 H. & Did you know LBJ is the alpha dog for team USA in Fiba World Championship in 2006? But they ended 3rd place only. Then the following year Kobe joined the group, and then they win the Gold Medal. But wait before I forgot. Carmelo Anthony is the leading scorer for US basketball team. Again Carmelo Anthony. LBJ是2006年FIBA世界盃國家隊的王牌但他們最終未能奪冠僅獲得第三名， 接著KOBE為了雪恥加入國家隊幫助美國在2008奪回奧運金牌， (Netflix有紀錄片The Redeem Team)，當時隊中得分王是甜瓜 I. Did you know Jordan leads the amateur team to 8-0 record against NBA All Star? How about LBJ? Did he play for amateur or did he joined to other all star player? MJ帶領1984 TEAM USA國家隊擊敗NBA，戰績是8-0， TEAM USA：MJ, Ewing, Mullin, Perkins, TEAM NBA ALL Star: Bird, Magic, McHale, Parish, Thomas, LBJ在業餘隊的成績呢？(應該是沒有，18歲就進NBA了) J. Do you know lebron has 134 Triple Double? Compare to MJ of 28? But did he win? Did the triple double record can bring a team to a championship? Lets compare Russel Westbrook 210 Triple Double, so Russ is better than Lebron? ofcourse not. Diba? "LONGEVITY" gives LBJ more points. But shall we see how many accomplishment he have compare to other legends. REMEMBER he played more seasons & still going, and he did not went to college. Its like a raffle, the more entries you have the more chance of winning. LBJ有134次大三元，MJ僅28次，但他贏了嗎？大三元紀錄能帶領球隊奪冠嗎？ 西河有210次大三元，所以能推論西河比LBJ更棒嗎？當然不是 (Diba看不懂啥意思) "長壽"讓他取得更多分，但該比較看看他整體的成績，而且他高中就直接打NBA， 並未進大學，比喻來說，就像抽獎，參與機會越多，得獎機會越高。 以下是該留言列出的MJ 對 LBJ的比較，就簡單翻譯就好了 Player MJ / LBJ Seasons Played 生涯賽季 15 / 20*現役 Top Points 總得分排名 5th / 1st Top Assist 總助攻排名 - / 6th Top Turnovers 總失誤排名 - / 1st Top Rebounds 總籃板排名 - / - Top Blocks 總阻攻排名 - / - Top Steak 總抄截排名 3rd / - Rookie of the year 年度最佳新秀 1 / 1 DPOY 最佳防守球員 1 / - All Star Teammates to win Chip 1 / 8 (全明星隊友) All Star Appearances 全明星次數 14 / 18 NBA All Stars MVPs 全明星MVP 3 / 3 All NBA 1st Team 年度第一隊 10 / 13 All NBA Defensive 1st Team 9 / 5 (年度防守第一隊) NBA Scoring Title 年度得分王 10 / 1 NBA Steal Leader 年度抄截王 3 / - Completed/played 82 games 82場全勤 9 / 1 Slam dunk Champion 灌籃大賽冠軍 2 / - 30+ points made 得分30+場次 562 / 523 40+ points made 得分40+場次 173 / 71 50+ points made 得分50+場次 31 / 14 60+ points made 得分60+場次 5 / 1 Over All PPG 生涯場均 30.1% / 27.2% Best Stats in a Single Game Pts-Reb-Ast-Stl-Blk-To 單場最佳成績 69-18-6 -4-1-2 / 61-7-4-0-0-2 How to prevent best player? Jordan Rule/ - 指特別設計針對戰術 How to get a foul? Attack inside / Flop 這我不太確定意指？ Player Efficiency Rating (PER) 1st / 2nd 效率值 Games played to reach 30k pts 969 / 1,107 3萬分場數 Finals Win 24 / 22 總冠軍系列勝場數 Finals Loss 11 / 33 總冠軍系列敗場數 Finals Swept 0 / 2 總冠軍系列被0-4 Championship 6 / 4 總冠軍數 Finals MVPs 6 / 4 總冠軍MVP Regular Season MVPs 5 / 4 季賽MVP 3 Peat 2 / - 三連霸 Best team record 72-10 / 66-15 季賽最佳戰績 Went to College YES / NO 上過大學？ College Championship 3 / - NCAA冠軍 College Player of the Year 2 / - NCAA年度球員 Olympics Gold 2 / 2 奧運金牌 Has been lost in Olympics No / 3rd 奧運未奪冠 Has been lost in Fiba No / 3rd FIBA未奪冠 Early Retirement YES / - 早退休？ No. of Retirement 2 / - 退休次數 Trophy named after him MJ MVP / - 以其為名的獎項 Space Jam Movie Earnings 250M / 163M 電影票房 Space Jam Merch Sales 1B / - 看不懂 Highest NBA Player shoe sales 5B / 340M 球鞋銷量 Highest Sneaker Sales Jordans / - Collectible Shoes Jordans / - Collaboration Shoes Jordans / - ESPN Poll, fans vote, 73% / 27% EPSN球迷投票 ESPN Poll, millenial voting 2 is to 1 / 1 is to 2 看不懂 Presidential Medal of Fredom 1 / - 總統自由勳章 對美國國家安全或利益、世界和平、文化或其他重要公共或私人事業， 作出特別傑出之貢獻(這個將來LBJ會不會得，還不知道所以保留) No. 23 retired by Chicago Bulls / - 公牛退役喬丹23號球衣 No. 23 retired by Miami Heat (MJ) / - 熱火退役喬丹23號球衣 (註：https://tinyurl.com/2mwpfqcu) No. 23 retired by North Carolina / - 北卡退役喬丹23號球衣 底下的我就不翻了，比較主觀一點 Help the league to become global / - Help Nike to become empire / - Statistic & Analytics vs Total Career Points Legacy vs Longevity When you're good at something, you tell everyone (self proclaimed) Vs When you're great at something, they tell you (greatness never claimed he is the GOAT) 補充：Jordan Rules 及出場紀錄 https://youtu.be/NLv2F33snCE 公牛1984選進MJ，(前三年都無緣季後賽) 1984-85 ECF1 1-3 公鹿， 1985-86 ECF1 0-3 塞提，本季重傷僅出賽18場 1986-87 ECF1 0-3 塞提，G2 63分仍是季後賽單場最高得分紀錄(TOP 10 MJ有4次) 1987-88 ECS 1-4 活塞，(第一輪3-2騎士，G5 The Shot絕殺) 1988-89 ECF 2-4 活塞 1989-90 ECF 3-4 活塞 1990-91 ECF 4-0 活塞，MJ靠著重訓提高與活塞的對抗性，克服了Jordan Rules 挺進總冠並開啟了第一次的三連霸，而不是靠轉隊~~笑 除第一年外，第二、三年季後賽止步的對手塞提是總冠、西冠 第四-七年對手活塞是西冠及總冠*2，第七年公牛總冠 說公牛坐鎮東區，輾壓西區群雄應該不為過，聯盟宰制力無誤， 騎士2003選進LBJ 2003-04 Playoffs X 2004-05 Playoffs X 2005-06 ECS 3-4 活塞 (大班、槍西)，活塞西冠止步 2006-07 Finals 0-4 馬刺 (馬刺三劍客)，馬刺總冠 2007-08 ECS 3-4 塞提 (塞提GAP)，塞提總冠 2008-09 ECF 2-4 魔術 (DW單核)，魔術西冠 2009-10 ECS 2-4 塞提 (GAP)，塞提西冠 2010 轉隊 雖論時代進步球員素質比較強，但是隊友應該也有提升， 與同區對抗的宰制力顯然就相形失色了。 補充：出場紀錄 MJ 1984新秀，1985重傷，1993退休，1994復出，1998退休，2001復出,2003退休 82,18,82,82,81,82,82,80,78,-,17,82,82,82,-,-,-,-,60,82 LBJ 2003新秀,2010轉熱火，2014轉騎士，2018轉湖人 79,80,79,78,75,81,76,79,62,76,77,69,76,74,*82,55,67,45,56,44現役球季進行中) *本季全勤 結論： LBJ仍現役，能創造那些紀錄還在追加中， 真的要比Greatest of his ERA，兩人應該都當之無愧， 真的要比Greatest of All Time，這攤開來，還是不要比了。 我是認為LBJ應該在很早就打定主意，要打長壽型的生涯了 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 36.227.128.196 (臺灣) ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/NBA/M.1676192402.A.8E0.html