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Re: [心得] 舞伎家的料理人

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最新2024-01-26 08:56:00
留言302則留言,36人參與討論
推噓82 ( 831218 )
原文恕刪…mOm 從原貼看來 似乎許多人都蠻在意劇中情節與現實狀況的差異 包括我自己也是 正好今天看到一篇是枝裕和的訪談(英文) 裡頭有段內容 讓我覺得有如是枝裕和對此表達了個人看法 所以轉貼過來 有興趣的板友不妨參考 但我個人英文能力並沒好到可以翻譯 所以就不獻醜了 請見諒 以下…(黃字部分為是枝裕和的回答) From what I understand, there's often a lot of international misunderstanding about Japanese geisha and the historical realities of the tradition. And I believe there is even debate within Japan about just how empowered geisha were, historically, and how the tradition should be perceived in relation to modern feminist ideals. You tell a very sweet and innocent story with this series, but what you said just now about there not being any 16-year-olds working as Makanai in today's geisha houses made me wonder about your views on some of these more complicated questions. The story does follow two 16-year-old girls who drop out of high school to work in this world. And although it's a world of exquisite, highly evolved art forms, it also comes down to young women hosting and serving drinks to much older men. In the process of working on the show, did you develop a view on the proper place of this tradition within Japanese society today? Have you seen all of the episodes? I’ve seen five, so far. Well, I am aware of the fact that people do have opinions on opposite sides of this issue, and not just from my experience of working on this drama. Personally, I feel that it's probably necessary for this tradition to undergo some reform, and some people within this world have told me there are working to do just that. But as you've mentioned, it's also true that there is a lot of misunderstanding regarding geisha and Maiko. When I interviewed one of the Okami-sans, the former house mothers, they told me that a lot of the foreigners who visit them have seen Memoirs of a Geisha and their understanding of geisha have been totally shaped by that film. So they assume all of the girls were sold to the house because of a poor upbringing, or that they are there out of desperation. And my own knowledge of Geisha, basically, had been shaped by Mizoguchi, who told very sad stories back in his day too. But then in real life, when I was doing my research and went to the Hanamachi (a district where Geisha live and work), the people I met there were very enthusiastic about this tradition and it was something that they had actively sought out. They want to preserve this culture and they want it to be accepted, and they are very serious about continuing to reform. All of the houses I had contact with would only accept Maiko if they had the express support of their parents. It really seemed to me that they were taking solid actions and I felt their passion for preserving their tradition and their art form. Personally, I feel that I would like to root for them. Obviously, it's not perfect. But we creators in the entertainment industry, we have been far too late in making our reforms as well. So, I would like to think we could continue to work together in that sense. But when I was developing the show, I did think that introducing this world as a place of pure, dreamlike wonder would be very irresponsible. So I also incorporated some elements into the show that didn't exist in the original story of the manga — as a slight critique. That's why I asked you how much of the show you had seen. For example, I included the character of the daughter who has strong critical opinions about the maiko ways. And I also added Sumire's father, who strongly objects to her wanting to become a maiko. And then I also had the sequence where the Okami-san shares her opinions in reply. So I added these elements to introduce some of the questions that you raise, but ultimately, I tried to leave it to the viewer to form their own judgement. 想看全篇報導的話 在這裡: https://bit.ly/3XiAGXG 原本我對劇版加入原作中沒有的涼子一角略感不解 看完這段訪談 算有得到解釋 但又覺得作用有限 因為我回想了一下 似乎除了一開始對季代和小堇說出那番有如警告的話之外 涼子後來也沒再多批評些什麼? 即使如此 我也能夠體諒 站在劇組的立場 考慮到本劇的屬性 這種事其實點到為止就好 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 122.117.168.114 (臺灣) ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Japandrama/M.1673709462.A.E33.html

Re: 回文串

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> Re: [心得] 舞伎家的料理人
Japandrama01/14 23:17

302 則留言

※ 編輯: ggyo88 (122.117.168.114 臺灣), 01/14/2023 23:20:57

fallfrost, 1F
說實話涼子這個角色很特殊 她是在這個屋子裡唯一的外

fallfrost, 2F
人 唯一的不是舞伎的人 唯一可以用手機的人 對她來講

fallfrost, 3F
是不得已生活在屋形的 其實這個角色我覺得滿妙的 雖然

fallfrost, 4F
結果來講作用不大XD

ggyo88, 5F
剛看完時真覺得這角色不知道加進來幹嘛:p

fallfrost, 6F
她的戲份超少XD 但是我確實有幾段覺得她的存在很妙 那

fallfrost, 7F
個外人感很特殊

fallfrost, 8F
不過是枝這樣講我覺得還是有點自以為是 他說白了也根

fallfrost, 9F
本覺得這個灰色產業(甚至超黑根本不灰)存在是可以被

fallfrost, 10F
保護的 但是這種保護充滿了對未成年人的剝削(性也好

fallfrost, 11F
勞力也好)

sate, 12F
這部是副標黑暗面 16歲開始的幫傭生活

fruitmonster, 13F
本來想看的但看了板友這兩篇文章完全打消念頭

fallfrost, 14F
其實我是真的覺得可以看啦 劇是好劇

ggyo88, 15F
可去臉書搜心得文,風向跟此地大不相同,或許會讓你再度

ggyo88, 16F
產生興趣…XD

fallfrost, 17F
感覺大部分地方還是對這劇好評居多吧 劇是好劇 畫面漂

fallfrost, 18F
亮 劇情溫暖 演員們都恰到好處

ggyo88, 19F
我也覺得不妨一看,還是有其可取之處。

ggyo88, 20F
許多人光是因為是枝裕和或京都就買單了

aiFly, 21F
感謝分享,也一直很好奇是枝自己的理解是什麼。其實原著漫

aiFly, 22F
畫本身就已經是用16歲小廚娘這個設定去表現這個世界是「虛

aiFly, 23F
構」的,影像化如果維持原設定,它本身就會是很奇妙的虛構

aiFly, 24F
和現實的平衡。(除非每集開始都打上大大的「現實中的京都

aiFly, 25F
都是70歲的煮飯婆婆喔」)我自己會覺得原著漫畫,是以料理

aiFly, 26F
少女這個町屋裡的「外人」的角度,去看到舞伎工作裡實際的

aiFly, 27F
「勞動」面向,好的方向想,更多人注意到它是勞動時,也許

aiFly, 28F
更有機會帶動實際工作條件的改善。越是有外人矚目這點,花

aiFly, 29F
街界也就更需要從內部改善自己的體質,而不是以共體時艱的

aiFly, 30F
口號要底下的人忍受糟糕的勞動條件。

rommel1, 31F
是枝裕和也是那個時代的人 想法老派

illumi, 32F
他比較像想拍,但是覺得照原作拍有點不負責任把慘業拍的太

illumi, 33F
美了,業界充滿熱情的說法其實有點微妙

shiz, 34F
不知道原作怎樣,但影集版的藝妓元素其實不算太多,整個抽

shiz, 35F
掉也不影響架構。重點還是屋形眾女子的故事。

rommel1, 36F
主打人與人的交流,藝妓舞妓的訓練過程也簡化很多

justV, 37F
其實剛開始看劇的時候沒想那麼多,看了板上這些討論後,反

justV, 38F
而開始好奇:到底他們想要保留的“傳統文話和藝術”是什麼

justV, 39F
呢?有人說是舞蹈、服裝跟妝法,但是這些難道沒有辦法用別

rommel1, 290F
應該職業化.能結婚.整併置屋轉型成技職學校.媽媽變成經紀

rommel1, 291F
人.解除舞伎年齡上限,不用滿六年沒襟替就強制退...

rommel1, 292F
過年時看上七軒大文字記錄片,收大學生當學徒,年紀太大

rommel1, 293F
不能當舞伎,短暫訓練後匆匆昇藝妓,感覺基礎不穩...

rommel1, 294F
不如解除上限,從舞伎慢慢歷練上來

rommel1, 295F
學徒轉型成學生,看是要住校還是住家裡,不用集中住宿

rommel1, 296F
媽媽當經紀人外兼任老師.導師,帶手下的藝伎舞伎

rommel1, 297F
各方的關係相當於建教合作

rommel1, 298F
日本的玩法 人越少的場子越高級

rommel1, 299F
看完本劇後看紀錄片,總覺得導演有從紀錄片中取材

rommel1, 300F
大文字勝貴 父親是醫生 高中是運動社團 XD

rommel1, 301F
部分人設參考勝奈 天賦好 老師肯定 學徒馬上轉見習

rommel1, 302F
大文字女將對這個行業的定義是"服務業"